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Post by Edmore on Jul 8, 2004 19:30:42 GMT -5
Whatever the case MDC will prevail because we cannot leave this evil to continue unabated
Lets give constuctive advice Comrades and stop just talking without giving ideas that MDC should employ to win the elections.
Conflicting ideas are good but at the same time critiscim is bad because it really demoralise and kills all that we have achieved in 5 years.
We hope to hear from you Comrades and lets think how we can help even if you do not have the know how, the little that we can give can make a big difference. Lastly honesty is a vitue, please lets not abuse the positions that we have been entrusted with because all those who want to help will be discouraged and will paint a bad image about the MDC. We do not want to have the KURUNERIS and the Gonos before we even get back the country. Lets be worry of those who come and approach us with colourful shining skins and lure us into giving away hard earned money later on to use it for their own benefit. Lets be true to ourselves, becasue if we can't then it is better not even to go for the polls, because at the end of the day we are going to have the same situation that exists in the present government. Munhu wese ari muCABINET yaBOB wants kudya. Saka tikatanga kuita izvozvo iko kuno kwatiri kunevamwe maZimba that will be self destruction, for the party.
EK
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Post by kumushacapelzcom on Jul 10, 2004 14:37:36 GMT -5
I am finding it difficult to see how we can still continue to ignore the voices of reason........The above posting still goes on about MDC kusvikira rini na rini!!!! This is the approach that brought us the Mugabe dictatorship. Look at the bold words in the posting by Courage Shumba. Read these and try to understand them. I would like to point out again "MDC has not done enough to capitalise on the failings of Mugabe and Zanu" Like it or not a lot of people have their doubts about MDC. Its not for any personal reason I continue to point this out but for the betterment of Zimbabwe. If you love Zimbabwe surely you would like the Zimbabwean Government in waiting or the Zimbabwean government to be the best that it can be.
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Post by EDDIE on Jul 10, 2004 19:59:28 GMT -5
I have read and understood some of the interest debates that we always start and the sort of empty rhetoric that Zimbabweans are so good at.
We are and we consider ourselves as a peaceful nation, but does that help the situation that we have in Zimbabwe. We also have people who try to depict how good they are in writing and coming up with a good jargon of words that appeal to those that do not or really pay attention to the message and sense coming out of those appealing words.
I would like to ask every Zimbabwean to put your- self into Tsvangirai's shoes and really look at what you would do if you were in his situation. Please lets think about that, seriously and after that I hope each and everyone of us will see that its not only for Tsvangirai and the MDC party to think and strategise what must be done to win the coming Presidential elections, but its every Zimbawean's responsibility to plan and help in this bloody worythwhile journey hey?
Its only when Zimbabweans will be able to respect every other human being as important thats when we are all gonna be liberated. As it is now we are far from it and it will take a lot to achieve. For those privileged to be leaving in other countries if you look at the political systems that prevail in those countries , you will find that everything starts with the charter of Human rights and the western world hold highly the values of humans. This is what we lack in African governments. There is no trust and respect, tolerance of difference of opinions, and a host of all that we always talk about our present Government.
Now to go back on an article that I have read, some Comrades, have actually blamed the MDC party and they blame them for not being aggressive in their own compaign. Some memberes have argued that racism will always be there and if it means kicking out all those whites that are rascist in nature , then we should do that, but what we do not know Comrades is that there in no one who should have his or her citizenbship evoked through racial lines. If one is a Zimbabwean he or she remains a Zimbabwean. Comrades do we ever thought about the fact that what ever statements and actions that we say or do are to some extend rascist or dicriminotory in nature. I for one do strongly denounce rascism and discrimination but we have to look and reflect everytime on our actions and do self evaluations how you would feel if that was done to you. This applies to all races in Zimbabwe. If we are to rebuild Zimbabwe lets not follow suite Samora Machel's example where Mozambique is still suffering from the effects of the expulsion of fellow country on racial grounds.
Times are really dynamic and if we pass on that kind of attitute to our children then the problems that we have today will always be there forever.Lets respect each other as special humans created by God from his own image. Lets respect the charter of human rights. When we talk I have a feeling that people have a wrong perception about discrimination or rascism. Both can be interchargeably applied to different situations. Zanu PF really has and is still showing that they discriminate against MDC supportes when it comes to the distribution of food. If you are not an MDC supporter you are simlpy going to be starved of food donated by Non Gorvenmental organisations. We can actually discriminate our fellow workers, classmates, church members and so on , and that is discrimination. So be it Asians,blacks or whites we can discriminate each other on different levels. That to me is lack of respect for each other as humans.
Why cannot Zimbabwe be an example to the world that we can leave together and respect each other as humans. Why can't we accept critiscim from others and not take it to mean that its being said in bad taste. Why can't we accept change and not take other human being's diverse opinions to mean dislike. Why do we always have to employ force and at the end of the day appear very barbaric, and uncivilised.
One might say what is my point so far? Well my point is lets all give ourselves power to fight for a better Zimbabwe. Lets be very objective in our thinking and respect every citizen of Zimbabwe. It does not mean rascists are only whites in Zimbabwe but you never know you might be spreading hatred and discriminiotory gospel about other races yourself. What is important is we might be doing that without knowing.
Lastly I would like to say that the Zimbabean situation, and environment does not create a good precedent to the next generations to come, because we encourage and preach hatred against particular groups of people . A good example is that of Shonas and Ndebeles Comrades, and its not our fault that we think that way of each other, but this dates back from our ancestors, as well as that the situation was made worse by the present Government that nearly wiped the Ndebele people in Bulawaya during the Gukurahundi era. I don't mean to be controvertial comrades but these are my beliefs and I think you can criticise me at all costs but it does not mean you have to stop respecting me as a human being because of difference in opinion.
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Post by EDDIE on Jul 10, 2004 20:18:39 GMT -5
I have read and understood some of the interesting debates, that we always start and the sort of empty rhetoric that Zimbabweans are so good at.
We are, and we consider ourselves as a peaceful nation, but does that help the situation that we have in Zimbabwe. We also have people who try to depict how good they are in writing and coming up with a good jargon of words that appeal to those that do not or really pay attention to the message and sense coming out of those appealing words.
I would like to ask every Zimbabwean to put your- self into Tsvangirai's shoes and really look at what you would do if you were in his situation. Please lets think about that, seriously and after that I hope each and everyone of us will see that its not only for Tsvangirai and the MDC party to think and strategise what must be done to win the coming Presidential elections, but its every Zimbawean's responsibility to plan and help in this bloody worythwhile journey hey?
Its only when Zimbabweans will be able to respect every other human being as important thats when we are all gonna be liberated. As it is now we are far from it and it will take a lot to achieve. For those privileged to be leaving in other countries if you look at the political systems that prevail in those countries , you will find that everything starts with the charter of Human rights and the western world hold highly the values of humans. This is what we lack in African governments. There is no trust and respect, tolerance of difference of opinions, and a host of all that we always talk about our present Government. Simply there is no democracy that we so deparately seek for in change of deeds(chinja maitiro).
Now to go back on an article that I have read, some Comrades, have actually blamed the MDC party and they blame them for not being aggressive in their own compaign. Some memberes have argued that racism will always be there and if it means kicking out all those whites that are rascist in nature , then we should do that, but what we do not know Comrades is that there in no one who should have his or her citizenbship evoked through racial lines. If one is a Zimbabwean he or she remains a Zimbabwean. Comrades do we ever think about the fact that what ever statements and actions that we say or do are to some extend rascist or dicriminotory in nature. I for one do strongly denounce rascism and discrimination ,but we have to look and reflect everytime on our actions and do self evaluations on how you would feel if that was done to you. This applies to all races in Zimbabwe. If we are to rebuild Zimbabwe lets not follow suite Samora Machel's example where Mozambique is still suffering from the effects of the expulsion of thePortugies on racial grounds, or as a form of revenge.
Times are really dynamic and if we pass on that kind of attitute to our children then the problems that we have today will always be there forever. Lets respect each other as special humans created by God from his own image. Lets respect the charter of human rights. When we talk I have a feeling that people have a wrong perception about discrimination or rascism. Both can be interchargeably applied to different situations. Zanu PF really has and is still showing that they discriminate against MDC supportes when it comes to the distribution of food. If you are not an MDC supporter you are simlpy going to be starved of food donated by Non Gorvenmental organisations. We can actually discriminate our fellow workers, classmates, church members and so on , and that is discrimination. So be it Asians,blacks or whites we can discriminate each other on different levels. That to me is lack of respect for each other as humans.
Why cannot Zimbabwe be an example to the world that we can leave together and respect each other as humans. Why can't we accept critiscim from others and not take it to mean that its being said in bad taste. Why can't we accept change and not take other human being's diverse opinions to mean dislike. Why do we always have to employ force and at the end of the day appear very barbaric, and uncivilised.
One might say what is my point so far? Well my point is lets all give ourselves power to fight for a better Zimbabwe. Lets be very objective in our thinking and respect every citizen of Zimbabwe. It does not mean rascists are only whites in Zimbabwe but you never know you might be spreading hatred and discriminiotory gospel about other races yourself. What is important is we might be doing that without knowing.
Lastly I would like to say that the Zimbabean situation, and environment does not create a good precedent to the next generations to come, because we encourage and preach hatred against particular groups of people . A good example is that of Shonas and Ndebeles Comrades, and its not our fault that we think that way of each other, but this dates back from our ancestors, as well as that the situation was made worse by the present Government that nearly wiped the Ndebele people in Bulawaya during the Gukurahundi era. I don't mean to be controvertial comrades but these are my beliefs and I think you can criticise me at all costs but it does not mean you have to stop respecting me as a human being because of difference in opinion, or simply hate me.
Edmore Kwaramba
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Post by Courage Shumba on Jul 14, 2004 16:03:10 GMT -5
Comrades
You will realise since the launcing of this facility it has been capable of exposing the angles and varying dimensions from which matters of society are differently approached within our country.Already we have seen the difference though small, this online platform ,symbolically, of the two parties Mdc has the will to promote political debate and discussion openly a feature Zanu pf will not attempt online. I congratulate the Mdc for coming up and being prepared to get directy through this platform what the people of Zimbabwe feel about the opposition and the significance of this stage of the struggle,its challenges and the future of Zimbabwe.I genuinely believe,seeing the number of visitors and participants with the same spirit, freedom of information will never be an issue in an MDC gorvenment should it carry forward the known and shared aspirations of our people for a just system.I will proceed therefore to attend matters of process.
Paranoid regimes i believe are what they are,use of excess force,media repression,electoral fraud and other forms but it must not be missed that they do so because they know they are dealing with people with real effective capabality to spread dissent into the hearts of the oppressed,within which groups youths are to be found .That explains the dictatorship's position of youths in the militias.They are waiting for those youths of their own age who one day will take up the challenge to put a stop to the rot in our system. Mugabe knows that if an opposition is to unseat a gorvenment,as in our case it has to,such challenge will be accomplished by young people in the strongest resistance zones controlled by the opposition.This will therefore be in urban areas so Mugabe has put a strong grasp on the rural folk whilst he can.MDC therefore needs to concentrate its effort critically on reducing the number of loss of constituencies to the dictatorship in areas where the militia is set to be most effective.The MDC needs to set up its own youth movement to accompany campaign teams to penetrate and diffuse its mainfesto in the way the ruling ,liberation, and oldest party does.It will be folly and harmful to try to avoid these places in both the confidence it creates for the Mugabe party and the scope of resistance in Zimbabwe.It will also at the same time expose those Zimbabweans in the rural areas that are sealed from information and alternative ideas to further brainwash and treacherous politicking.As such there is no alternative,for as long as elections are to participated in by the mdc,but to prepare for elections with the full force of its supporters and find within it volunteers to measure up to the playing field at which the victory has to be won.Already the world has chosen its sides,whom to go by,should we be caught in the stalemate of the outgoing five years.Namibia will stand by Mugabe as Botswana will keep its strong stance against autocracy.It is possible ,Zanu pf may not mind a decade of stalemates,for as long as the army and police are still under its control.It is why it becomes imperative to look at starting to create a force of willing and able men to save the country following the 2005 elections in which electoral fairness will be frustrated by state funded violence .
You will find that Mugabe and his party no longer hunger for reputation but to live in power as close to their deaths as they can.Resignation or no resignation Mugabe will be succeeded by a younger ruthless dictator with only himself to serve.In any case Mugabe will be succeeded by very close people who like him have something to supress .Zimbabwe can only be liberated and only if the chance to gorven is presented to a whole new set of people with a diametrically opposed purpose for seeking political office.Anyone brought to succeed whilst the despot is alive will be under pressure to protect the regime.
We need to get rid of Zanu pf for at least 10-15 years whilst we move the country beyond pre-independence rhetoric and racist hysteria.We need to put in place a workable system of public accountabilty testing,serive delivery,efficiency and develpment.We need to propel the MDC into delivering suffiency and quality once they are given a chance to rule.
Thank you for many informing articles
Courage Shumba
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Post by DEMO DEMO on Jul 14, 2004 20:15:35 GMT -5
CHINJA MAITIRO CHINJA DEMO DEMO DEMO PADALLAS TEXAS USA THIS SATURDAY 17 JULY 2004 EVERY ZIMBABWEAN INVITED PLEASE COME TOGETHER WE WILL COMPLETE THE CHANGE .
Cde JOE SLO
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Post by Godfrey Rukanda on Jul 15, 2004 6:13:31 GMT -5
I read with disbelief what the fingaz is up to now I do not think being an Intellectual means you are able to run the country
It does not matter how many degrees you have that you thing you can run a country look at the mess that have been caused by baba Chatunga its a disgrace
I personally do not think if Morgan is convicted today then people must form camps to replace him but the constitution is fundamental.
As a voter I voted MDC not because of those misguided intellectuals but because Morgan helped to come out of the jaws of a lion
I respect Welshman ,Matongo ,Gibson and Tsvangirayi.
But to hear this bullnuts from Fingaz is worrying
The party must be very careful and remain united and its not a forum of portraying how learned you but to put the people of Zimbabwe first.
Remember that the name MORGAN TSVANGIRAYI is like a Brand aurgumented by MDC they must be used properly.
World over those are the names that are known
Words to remember there is a great job ahead of us it needs all of us to work as a team.
Zanu pf might want to use the Treason trial as a conduit to divide the party but to conquer that lets work together.
The case itself can it ever be treason when a crook like Mugabe pays a crook Like Ari Manashe to manufacture treason thus diabolic people of Zimbabwe must wisen up
I pen off
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Post by Ed Kwaramba on Jul 18, 2004 14:05:03 GMT -5
Dear Comrades
I have just been reading a lot of articles concerning the coming parliamentary elections next year 2005. It seems to me that there are not going to be free and fair elctions at all.
Now looking at what happened in the by elections in Zengeza, Lupane and other areas, its a fact that violence, intimidation, torture, killings will be unleashed on us as MDC. MDC will not be allowed to camapign, under the new law, Public Order and Security.. ....This law allows the government to detain anyone without trial or bail as long as they wish. They do not have to prove that your have done something in accordance with the laws. So MDC will not be granted a platform to hold rallies and campaign freely without harrassment.
I have been really thinking as a concerned citizen on what should be done so as to let people know that MDC is still vibrant and will win the elections. every other efforts to pass information to the people will be stifled big time by the state machinery that Robert Mugabe has always turned to when he needs to surpress the voice of the voiceless.
Now there are two interesting suggestions that I have read and maybe some of us we already know.
1- IS TO USE DIRECT MAIL. I really evaluated that tactic and I know it will really be very effective.
2- if we have people who can just throw flyers everywhere in towns even in rural areas then that will really work too.
3- Comrades our parents, grandparents , sisters or other relatives leave in rural areas. Zanu PF's support or strong hold is in the rural areas. If we play our part as disminators of information to our rural folk that will just do the trick we never know.
Most of our relatives there in the rural are told that if you vote for the MDC will be known througha cell fone or whatever the case. In its own entirelity that is intimidation and coercing for votes. Lets tell our relatuives that they must attend those Zanu PF rallies and meetings so as to disguise the Zanu PF chiefs think everyone is on their sides. Our relatives must know who to vote through the information that we must pass on to them.
Lets play our part and if we can contribute the little that we can that will be the step towards freedom.
Morgan if these startegies are applicable go ahead and do it.
Edmore Kwaramba
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Post by Vukani on Jul 19, 2004 2:39:44 GMT -5
There will never be free and fair elections in Zim as long as Mugabe and his cronies live. The intimidation and violence has already started. The public press is closed to all but Zanu-pf. Free speech is prohibited. Rallies of other parties are prohibited. Violence, jail, rape and murder are unleashed on people who support the opposition. The majority of the opposition supporters have been forced out of the country and therefore can not participate in the election.
The police force and the army which are supposed to be neutral have sworn their allegiance to Zanu. The list of why Zim's election won't be free and fair is endless.
However the MDC leadership should pull up their socks. We are losing suport on the ground if u haven't noticed. I am also starting to have my doubts. We need stayaways and demontrations to revive the party. However I am convinced that one day zim will be truly liberated.
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Post by Ek on Jul 19, 2004 18:02:20 GMT -5
Zimbas
I would like to congratulate the Dallas MDC leaders and all those that have made it possible, for the demonstration to go ahead. We can really make a change if we let the world know our situation back In Zimbabwe.
Please keep on watching for the Canadian MDC demo to follow very soon.
Ek
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Post by Nicholas Mada on Jul 23, 2004 14:41:52 GMT -5
Shumba, i am a member of MDC United States. I hate to agree that Zimbabwean people need to work harder than we think we are doing inorder to topple the dictatorial regime. The ruling regime has no feelings for the citizens of Zimbabwe anymore. If we cannot see that as a people then there is something very wrong with us. May God intervene and help people understand your leadership stratergy. Wish you the best of everything. Nicholas Nickson Mada Carlifonia USA
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Post by Joe on Jul 24, 2004 6:45:22 GMT -5
I think Zimbabwe is on the york of brutal oppression I have followed Morgan Case on Treason my personal decision is a normal judge will not find him guilty but a stupid judge will.
I read with sorrow how Chinamasa have manipulated the judges decisions over varoius cases let him not read the situation as success.
My heart is painfull I can not stay far away from home like this because of him
He shall pay in whatever means unless he goes in the grave with Mugabe
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Post by Eddie K on Aug 1, 2004 19:02:29 GMT -5
Good evening Zimbabwe especially those back home and those in the diaspora!. I sulute you all in the name of change which is not really quite far from our reach from now.
Today I had a dream. The dream that I had, concerned way back in the 1990s when I attended Professor Jonathan Moyo's lectures for Public Policy and Political Science, at the UZ. Of particular interest was Public Policy, and Political Science courses that our present Minister for information taught.
I would like to let you know Zimbabwe that the Minister was always well dressed. He was so organised that you would really envy it. He was so eloquent and straight to the point. He was my favourite then. I won't take that away from him at all. I leant to appreciate politics from this man who has turned his back on democracy that he so dearly loved.
Jonathan has changed so much and the turnaround that he did suggests that its all about money against the really truth that he knows from his Political science education. He is one heck of a person who denounced Zanu PF's violence during election time. He used to write election reports and did evaluations. Everyone who was taught by Moyo would agree with me.
I remember one morning in the lecture room which was deemed "MBOMBERA" because of the number of students who studied for that course program, He would rant and attack the Zanu PF leadership and Mugabe. He taught politics and applied examples to what was happening in Zimbabwe those days, and you know it really made sense that much. One would really appreciate political science courses after hearing Moyo conduct his lectures.
He was very outspoken. He believed very much on freedom of speech and choice. He used to denounce violence and intimidation tactis during elections against such political parties like Zum, Zanu Ndonga, PF Zapu,and many others that have come and disappeared. Moyo would challenge if there were any CIOs in the lecture room would ask them to deliver his message to Mugabe.
I guess he knew exactly what he was doing. He later left the UZ and joined the Ford Foundation. Whether that was for greener pastures or that he was running away from the CIOs nobody knows. He is the best to explain that. Moyo was widely considered to be a vibrant and well educated scholar of Politics who would bring a very balanced view of how the goverrnment should be run mostly by the University community. He used to champion for a democratic Zimbabwe. He advocated for the fair distribution of executive powers of the Leader of a state. He castigated and tried by all means to extricate himself from the notion that he was power hungry and he wanted to be heard , of which I think is exactly what happened.
Jonathan Moyo had the guts in front of the students to challenge Mugabe to a public debate. He was a true poitical analyst when he used to write those true informing articles in the Financial Gazette on his political Column. I think those who quite follow politics would remember that. I do not know how many threats he got from writing those articles then.
Now its my turn to challenge Jonathan today to a public debate on what really is freedom of press and media. What really is democracy. How must free and fair elections be conducted. How must we curtail executive powers and still maintain a balanced rule of law in a state. Surely Jonathan would like to talk on this but I am afraid he cannot engage himself on this now because although he knows the truth, for the time being, he is using those who really need his services to surppress the electorate. He has the skills and the knowledge, thats why Mugabe hired him. Infact Mugabe hired him because he saw him as a threat and he was so afarid to lose him to the opposition party. He did not hesitate at all to hire him when he knew his power and popularity was plummeting so fast. He was so tired of defending and telling lies to the people that he desparately needed some one young and vibrant. He Jonathan he availed himself just in time during the voting for or against the constitution draft.
My friends John, Keith, Reginald "Weje" Milton and the now ZBC Director M.W. really know how Jonathan was a ray of hope to our future country with his knowledge. He lost focus and true values of democracy when he joined Zanu PF. I wouldn't miss Jonathan Moyo's lecture at all.
We so admired, him at the same time we so feared for his security. But even though everybody adimired Jonathan, he had an element of meanness. He was such a person that you wouldn't negotiate with on anything. He was so strict and did not want to agree or listen to other peoples opinions. He was kind of shrude and little pompous. No wonder why he does such a good job when it comes to keeping a tight grip on press freedom and pretending as if he doesn't know. Do you still rember how he so defended so bluntly the Mugabe regime during the 2000 general elections, that was really mean and so frustrating to hear him talk on National TV.
Thats the way he has always been. Once given the opportunity to exercise his muscles by Mugabe he quickly embarked on a journey directed on destroying and restricting press freedom and media as he knows if you diprive your opposition on this you will win what ever election you hold in a state. If you enact laws that are so strict on media then the opposition coverage is derailed, and he is just doing that.
He has invited young blood to those posts that he knows are so critical for Zanu PF and appointed those he knows will not question his directives but just do as he says. We have people like M.W running the ZBC today although I know, you know what a true democratic state Zimbabwe should be, I know you have been monopolising and playing Chimurenga Music on TV and radio because you are just carrying out orders. You do not really mean harm kuvana vevhu handi here shamwari but you need to serve your bosses and make a living.
To Jonathan I would like to ask him if he truelly sees politics differently from those days as a lecturer. Are you still and do you stand by your anti corruption rhetoric. Do you still advocate for freedom of speech an press, choice, and preach for a democratic Zimbabwe. Do you still advocate for a pluralistic model of government rule. Do you still remember your favourite words, " Too much power is corrupt, its dangerous." I hope one day you will wake up from your deep slumber and start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. You better do it now before its too late, nekuti wakatodziya moto wembazva kare iwe.
Ek.
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Post by mutyanda on Aug 2, 2004 18:06:49 GMT -5
The demonstrations and protests are a relentless effort that is peaceful and well respected by the world at large. zanu (pf) is destroying lives, giving Africa a wrong image and name. MDC is associated with peace.
Freedom in Zimbabwe is not free! Continue with the demonstrations Canada
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Post by Klwinti on Aug 15, 2004 22:13:21 GMT -5
Dear Moderators, I am disappointed that on this forum only the MDC can start new topics for discussion. There is the "federalism" governance issue that the MDC needs to urgently address and keeps dodging. There is unity in diversity yes, but unity should not stiffle self-determination by particular groups if they so wish. What is the official statement of the MDC on federation as a constitutional matter? This is a hot topic on most Zimbabwe websites that I have visited recently. What does the MDC intend to do with the office of Provincial Governors which in many ways suggests willingness to divolve power on the part of ZANU PF???
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