GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

[MDC ZIMBABWE]

Go for it, no AIPPA or POSA.. ;D ;D

[stillmdcbut...]

Would it be possible to get brief details of both the Acts?

[ZIM LAW]

POSA and IAPPA

www.kubatana.net/docs/opin/matyszak_posa_050302.pdf

and

www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=20&q=http://www.sokwanele.com/pdfs/AIPPA.pdf&e=10187


Thanks

[stillmdcbut...]

Thanks, Zim Law.

[Job Rukanda]

If Benjamen Mkapa have nothing to say let him just shut up his dirty mouth and instead talk about Tanzania not Zimbabwe.

We have suffered a lot in the hands Mugabe and we are not prepared to hear his rubbish.

[lindiwe ndlovu]

It's not only Mkapa. What about Mbeki? Why do these guys support Mugabe?

Lindiwe

[stay home]

is there a stay away

[MDC ZIMBABWE]

STAYAWAY

Thursday 9th June and Friday 10th June 2005

----- Original Message -----
From: "egcross"

Action

Please note that the stay away on Thursday and Friday is official - it has
the support of all major civic bodies in the country. They are calling for a
solid two-day stay away from work to protest in a manner that will not
expose people to the violence and intimidation of the Police and the Army.

Just stay at home - do your buying on Wednesday and then take a 4-day break.
Do not go out if you can avoid it as there may be trouble and the safest
place for you is at home.

Please note that this is not the only action being taken - there are several
initiatives being run at the same time. Further action is planned for next
week and you will be informed of this as decisions are taken and the
relevant information can be released to the public.

We are not prepared to take this nonsense anymore. The country is collapsing
and with it our companies and jobs are in serious jeopardy. The Police and
the Army are just as fed up but they want to see what you feel about this
situation. The Stay Away is your first shot at this. Lets act together as we
did before.

See in Video how tyrrant Mugabe and his thugs demolished the people's houses
www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da6800102a8/09012da680010534?size=16x9&news=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&bgc=6699CC

[General Pswarayi]

I find it hard to believe a Ploitical Party like yours is still using the same tactics that have in the past failed. What you have to realise is that the present goverment will not stop at anything to hold onto power. You keep galloping to the west for support, in which all they can offer is imposing sanctions on Zimbabwe which will only affect the ordinary man on the street and not you lot, you insist you can help Zimbabweans in the diaspora which I find really laughable, What Zimbabwe needs is a really good opposition with people who are intelligent and can mount a realistic challenge, I know where MDC will end up, EXACTLY WHERE ZUM,ZAPU ARE TODAY.

[Zimbabwean vulture]

MDC should be able to wake people up much better than this (9 June 2005 stayaway). I read the last time that one of the MPs was saying that the people should take to the streets and not just wait for the leaders to do so. The problem is, and as it already shows, you as leaders do the ORGANISING, STRATEGISING, PLANNING and all the advocating thats supposed to be done in order for people to know where to meet, when you meet, what to do and what to expect. Why should people just go on stayaway and not know, what speifically it achieves.

MDC has to wake up and realize, the people expect strong decisive leaders, who know where they stand and what to do. Why expect people to lose the little livelihood they have, when they don't know what specifically this particular stayaway will do. Saying this will symbolize disgruntlment simply won't do. Tell the people of zimbabwe, what you expect things will happen if we go on stayaway. Not just kuti, economy inokuvara...thats laymans talk, and you are not supposed to be laymen. You expect to take care of a country yet you don't even know how to organise and moblize a 2day stayaway.

Don't expect the people of zimbabwe to have any guts to stand up aganist mapurisa, or green bomber when they have no REAL strong decisive leadership to back them up. As much idealistic as you may wish, to think people don't mobilize themselves, they don't motivate and inspire themseleves. They need leaders to wake up and tell people this is how things are going to be done -- and thats one place and quality that tyrant yet still a laeder Mugabe has over yourselevs. He says what he wants and it happens, regardless. Now though he is not an example to go by interms of method, his decisiveness is what holds everything together. Everyone knows that the old croonies wait for his word before doing anything, because of his decisiveness and focus no one really go aganist him, not even you.

The MDC is turning out to be a bunch of vultures, waiting for prey to die, rather than attack. Well when that prey does die, don't think you deserve any part of the meet because you waited. You don't deserve leadership because you have dedicated yourself to something. You don't deserve leadership because you spoke out when everyone was quite. Just like the school boy who calls out a remark during assembly yet still fearing the headmaster, ndimi MDC. You haven't earned the leadership yet and defiantely anyone who comes out of the closet when the time is right, will have just as much credibility as you, if not better.

I could go on and on and on about what the MDC which once showed promise is becoming like. Asi I hope you get the point. The people of zimbabwe, see you are playing the waiting game and have no other clear plan execpt wait and hope for the best sometime in the future.

By the way, I am and have been a member of the MDC ever since 2000. I am not in zimbabwe, because i know that after this is over Zimbabwe will want to rebuild. and so though I am not in Zimbabwe, I am working towards a better Zimbabwe myself in my own way. Wih 80% of the people in zimbabwe all unemployed and now this ysunami happening, there will have to be people who have some ideas that need to come to zimbabwe. I am going to be one of thoise people. Unfornately I wait just like you MDC when that miracle happens and there is a better zimbabwe, because i am like you MDC a vulture waiting for the opportunity to strike when its all clear, and wait we shall, because we have no leadership to show us the way.

-- By the way what excuse does the current MDC leadership not to quit when it has perform sooo badly within its supposedly goals od change. I hope it is not to balme Mugabe and his governement as Mugabe blames the UK. Otherwise you would be 2 different birds signing the same song "It wasn't me its them"? You knew what the government was capable of , yet still you did and continue to do nothing. How nmuch would I want to be leader by people who a clueless just like me.

[inini]

Tiri kuda vanhu vano nyatsa tura zviri kuda kuitwa, tigare kumba kusvikira rini? Why 2days and not until the governement leaves. What if we try 7days, tagara tinenzara, why not just stay kumba kusvikira zvaita?

Komapurisa? Indawa muati mataurirana nawo kuti zvinhu zviite? Munhu vese akarega kuenda kubasa, kusvikira zvaita hazvigone here kuita? Kumbirai kana airwave paradio muburitse shoko kune vanhu, tione zveshuwa kuti muri varume pane vamwe.

[shepi12]

mugabe haasi mwana we zimbabwe futi saka dai abva zvake aenda kumusha kwake coz taneta naye veduwe. iye wacho iasyslum seeker dai mapurisa abatana nevanhu vaita strike. coz futi ivo mapurisa acho ari kudya achiguta.

[Jude]

What can 'outsiders' constructively do? ? Myself and many intelligent and influential friends are outraged hourly, yet don't know what we can constructively do to help in any way, as we feel obliged to. ??

[Les]

Why did the stay-away fail? Because poverty has yet to knock on the doors of the so-called middle class. Zimbabweans as a people are very selfish - we are corrupt because we do not take time to think about the effects of our activities on our neighbours and so it extends that the people being evicted now don't matter since they live on the other side of town. For most, murambatsvina is something on ZBC and we never get to see it cos we don't even want to change channels from DSTV to catch a glimpse of what's in ZBC and happening at home. Until poverty comes calling at the doors in the north of Harare, then it's business as usual. Uncle Bob wins again cos his divide and rule is working perfectly. I notice the flea market at Avondale is still operational - though reduced in size, but tell me who else of the old flea market oprators from town has reopened for business? When and where did the stand owners at Avondale register? We are no different from Germany in the days of Hitler - we are going to be shocked when we get to see the full extent of the damage that ZANU-PF has done to our country right under our noses! We will likely be the first to say "If I knew, I would have emigrated as well". Come on guys, if we don't stand up for those guys who will stand up for us when the hurricane gets to us. It probably will soon when they come looking and asking where we are getting our forex to pay for DSTV.

The guys in the diaspora need to get on with a diplomatic offensive. The companies which left South Africa because of apartheid are the same ones in Zimbabwe. They don't necessarily need to leave but make a statement by closing shop when there is a stayaway. They can't tell me they are happy with the situation. How can you be happy when interest rates quadruple overnight? How can you happy when real returns are going down and you are being forced to retrench every year. This country had prospects for many of the companies but now many are wasting money holding up their Zimbabwe operations which are limping without an idea of when the fracture will heal. I believe shutting the country down completely foe two weeks will do a lot more good than carrying on like this for even six more months. Hardly five years back we all had hope and were talking of change as if it was around the corner, now there is nothing. Our brothers oversees need to identify the chambers of industry in their countries of residence and approach them with this idea in mind. The difference with South Africa is that Zimbabwe is thoroughly broke and won't be able to stand for a month even with South Africa's help. Something drastic needs to be done (or at least tried) because we cannot carry on like this.

Many say that if Mugabe goes things will be better. Typical Zimbabwean sentiment - set a milestone and hope things will change when that milestone comes and goes. Unfortunately, unlike other dictatorships, ZANU is a party and right now tghirty year olds are rising through the ranks and they are about as nasty as the old boys we hope they will replace - I've said the old boys are better since they have a legacy to protect but these young turks are protecting ill-gotten wealth.

Most nothern Harareans think their only duty is to vote and then it ends there. We are a sad lot. Do we really think the army will shoot at a crowd of people? If so, so what. After all many are dying in the Winter with nowhere to live - but I suppose they are from the other dise and their lives are secondary.

[General]

People living in diaspora have very little influence on wht happens in Zimbabwe and I do believe there is nothing even ordinary Zimbabweans can do living in Zimbabwe, I live in a foreign country and to be honest I count myself a s a coward in the sense that all I await is a peaceful Zimbabwe to return, which is no good but to think of it there will be very little I could do to change things there, what people have to realise is that Mugabe is in Saddams league and the guy is really intelligent, what we have for opposition is rubbish and has not been able to mount a real challenge to this guy, They have continously gone to the west to call for help and to impose sanctions on Zimbabwe and history has proven that sanctions sometimes dont work and they are a not a solution, Iraq, Libiya to name a few have all survived these sanctions, To be honest with what Zimbabwe needs is what America did in Iraq and this should not only apply to Zimbabwe but to every other Brutal, corrupt regime that exists anywhere in the world.

When the powerful west have cleaned and killed these evil bastards and their families, then only can we have free and fair elections this might sound a bit cruel but to be honest with you this is the only solution, Very soon I will be mobilising people in the diaspora to petition George,Tony,Koffi,Jaque,Glen and other members of the G8 to take this very action Robert and all his cronies and immediate family Members must be asked to leave the country the same way saddam was asked to leave and this should apply to Zimbabwe. And after they all leave the MDC should be dissolved and new alliance sformed to take Zimbabwe forward.